Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen Exposed
17. Al-Isra'.81 "Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."
Table of Content
1.Introduction to this Heretical sect.
2.The Hidden Kufr.
3.The Basis of their argument.
4.Jamaat-ul-muslimeen's Explanation to the Hadith.
5.Refutation.
6.Jamaat-ul-muslimeen and their Bayah.
7.Back breakers for Jamaat ul Muslimeen.
8.How to counter Jamaat ul Muslimeen.
9.Online Debate with Jamaat-ul-muslimeen.
10.Even a child can disprove their concept.
11.Latest Findings about the Jamaat ul Muslimeen - Masoodiyyah.
12.Kufr Quotes - Jamaat ul muslimeen – Masoodiyyah.
13.Shaikh Albaani on the word "Muslim".
14.The Open Challenge for an Online Debate once more.
15.Our second challenge to Jamaat ul muslimeen – Masoodiyyah.
1.Introduction to this Heretical sect.
Although this Jamaat is an old one, many of us do not know about it, it is however very important to warn people about it . Jamaat-ul-muslimeen was formed in Pakistan
They have an Ameer who they consider as a Khalifah. According to them, the one who does not give Bayah to their Ameer will die a death of Jahiliyyah. They do not pray behind any person who does not belong to their Jamaat, as they consider him as a Kaafir ( read the article- The hidden KUFR).
2.The Hidden Kufr.
There are allegations against Jamaat-ul-muslimeen one of them being their declaration of every one else besides them as "Kaafirs". This jamaat claims, on the face of it, that it does not call anyone else a "Kaafir". This is a true allegation against them, although they deny it. The following are proofs against them:
If you read the article posted on their website (aljamaat.org) titled "The Distinctive Features of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" point no. 10 says," To leave Jamaat-ul-muslimeen is to invite a death of ignorance (the era before Islam)". And what is a person who lives in the era before Islam? "Kaafir" of course!! Because he has not accepted Islam.
Further in point no. 11 they openly declare," To leave Jamaat-ul-muslimeen is to leave Islam." This means that if a person is a member of their jamaat , he is in Islam. And if he is not then he has not yet entered the fold of Islam. In other words he is a non-Muslim i.e. a "Kaafir". Never in history did the Sahabah declare anyone else as "Kaafir" just because they have not given the Bayah (oath of allegiance). We will also discuss about this (Bayah) later.
If you read their Urdu booklet "Faridha-e-ita'at-e-ameer" (The obligation of obedience to an Ameer), the same points have been mentioned on its back side in Urdu with an extra point which says" Jamaat-ul-muslimeen kay paas jo kuch hai uska inkaar KUFR hai" which means that rejecting whatsoever they have is "KUFR". If you reject whatever they have, good or bad, it's KUFR.
Finally if you read their book "Invitation to Haq" posted on their website (www.aljamaat.org), which is in English, on page no.4, referring to the sects of Islam, it reads:
"When people of such sects are invited towards the base of Islam (Quran and Sunnah) they become redundant. They practically reject the divine commands in the presence of teachings of their religious scholars and heroes. This is exactly how the Jews and the Christians were acting and now are acting. The question is whether such a person remains a Muslim or not? For sure the reply will be in negative."
Here you can clearly observe that they have declared that all sects are not muslims or in other words kaafirs.
This Jamaat is tricky and plays with words. Instead of saying, "He is a Kaafir", they will say, "He is not a muslim". This is like so..........instead of saying, "you are dumb or foolish" they say, "You are not intelligent". There is no difference, only a clever usage of words.
Alhamdulillah, these points are enough to prove that they consider everybody else besides them as "KAAFIRS".
At this point we all must recall the saying of our Prophet (PBUH), "Whoever calls his brother as "O Kaafir" then it applies to one of them" Muwatta of Imam Maalik (56.1)
Hence we must refrain our tongues from such utterances of Jahiliyyah (ignorance).
May Allah guide us.
In the end Allah knows best !!
The following is a hadith which is found in Sahih Al-Bukhari as well as Sahih Al-Muslim and also in a few other books of Ahadith. It was narrated by Hudhaifah Bin Al-Yaman. Read the Hadith carefully:
The people used to ask Allah's Apostle about good, but I used to ask him about evil for fear that it might overtake me. Once I said, "O Allah's Apostle! We were in ignorance and in evil and Allah has bestowed upon us the present good; will there be any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I asked, "Will there be good after that evil?" He said, "Yes, but it would be tainted with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil)." I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see their actions and disapprove of them." I said, "Will there be any evil after that good?" He said, "Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Describe those people to us." He said, "They will belong to us and speak our language." I asked, "What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the Main body of Muslims (in Arabic - Jamaat-al-muslimeen) and their Chief." I asked, "If there is neither a Main body (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?" He said, "Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state."
This Hadith is the basis of the formation of their jamaat.
4.Jamaat-ul-muslimeen's Explanation to the Hadith.
Note: This Article only explains their interpretation.
After reading out the Hadith to you they say that the things mentioned in the hadith about the people not practicing the traditions of the Prophet (PBUH) and the people inviting to the doors of hell refer to our period i.e. today. Secondly they say that everybody else besides "Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" is a sect (firqa) destined to go to hell according to the hadith. They say we must leave all the sects and join the true one. Thirdly they say that according to this hadith the name of the jamaat in Islam should be "Jamaat-ul-muslimeen". Which is why they say sects are based upon the differences in names. Whosoever has a name other than theirs, they become a sect that has gone astray. They then say that because we have kept our Jamaat's name as so, all people must join them or be destined to burn in hell. Fourthly they say that you must not call yourself anything other than the name "Muslim". For e.g. if a person calls himself a "Hambali", even if he says he is a Muslim, proclaims Shahadah, prays salah, fasts, performs Hajj and even gives Zakat, he is out of Islam i.e. he is a Kaafir. They say that Allah says in the Quran "...He has named you Muslimeen before and in this (Quran)..." Surah Hajj. They say that hence only the name Muslim should be used. Hence whosoever is not a part of the Jamaat-ul-muslimeen he is not a "Muslim".
5.Refutation.
First of all one point is enough to disprove them and that is the explanation of "Hafiz Ibn Hajar", the person who wrote the "sharah"-commentary Fath-ul-baaree (13\35) of Sahih al-Bukhari, which says what a muslim should do before there is Ijma' upon a Khalifah i.e. before agreeing upon a Khalifah and the unity and disunity talked about in the hadith is of a political nature i.e. it does not relate to sects in differences of beliefs, actions or NAMES but political sects. This will shatter their argument because they give explanations by their own desires and do not follow the explanations of the Salaf-us-Saleh (Sahabah, Tabayeen & Tabe Tabayeen) .Secondly nowhere in the Quran and Hadith is it ever mentioned that "Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" is the name of the jamaat. Neither did the Salaf-us-Saleh ever say such a thing nor can it be traced back to the Islamic history. This is a clear innovative belief. "Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" only means "a Group of Muslims" or "Main body of Muslims", which is a term used for Khilafah. Whatever they say can never be traced back to the Salaf-us-Saleh (Sahabah, Tabayeen & Tabe Tabayeen). Thirdly the hadith in reference speaks about what to do in times of disunity (political) and in the absence of the Main body of muslims (Khilafah). It never says to form a new jamaat, which is what they did. This was never the command of the Prophet (PBUH). He only said to stay away from all sects even if you have to die, but not to form a new jamaat. Hence they, instead of following the Hadith are opposing it. Fourthly the Prophet (PBUH) and the Salaf-us-Saleh (Sahabah, Tabayeen & Tabe Tabayeen) never said that one should call himself a muslim ONLY, this is also an innovative belief because there were a lot of names that were used by them( Mo'mineen, ibaadallah etc). And the Jamaat was called (Ahl-us-sunnah-wal-jama'ah, Ahl-us-sunnah, Ahl-ul-jama'ah, etc) . Finally the hadith clearly says that the people inviting to the doors of hell will be among their skin ( hum fi jildatina) and they will speak their language. Therefore it is quite clear that they will be Arabs speaking Arabic. Hence the prophecy does not apply to non-Arab sects, as they suggest. Hence this relates to the political scenario in the Arab world.
6.Jamaat-ul-muslimeen and their Bayah.
The Jamaat-ul-muslimeen say that whosoever does not give the Bayah to their Ameer he will die a death of ignorance. They use the following hadith for their argument :
The Prophet (SAW) said, "One who withdraws his hand from obedience (to the Ameer) will find no argument (in his defense) when he stands before Allah on the Day of Judgment, and one who dies without having bound himself by an oath of allegiance (to an Ameer) will die the death of one belonging to the days of Jahiliyyah."
Sahih Muslim Hadith 4562 Narrated by Abdullah Ibn Omar.
This hadith, of course, applies to the time when there is Khilafah. But when there is no Khilafah then a normal muslim who cannot do anything will not be put to blame. They use this hadith and say that after taking Bayah a person becomes a Muslim. So if a person (a normal muslim) does not give Bayah he is not a muslim and no member of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen is supposed to pray behind him or attend his marriage or even reply to his greetings (Salaam). These are their rules. They have declared their Ameer as Khalifah by giving Bayah. No where does the hadith of Hudhaifah bin Al-Yaman, or any other Hadith for that matter, gives such a solution or teaches that every body else are Kaafirs. The Hadith only says to keep away and not to form a new jamaat. At this juncture it would be fit to mention a saying of Omar (RA) :
"Whoever gives the pledge of allegiance to anybody among you without consulting the other Muslims, neither that person, nor the person to whom the pledge of allegiance was given, are to be supported, lest they both should be killed."
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 8.817 Narrated by Ibn Abbas.
Now here if they LIE that they consider all as muslims then their manhaj (way) goes against the above saying, that is because they gave the pledge without consulting the other muslims. Or they simply have no other alternative but to say that all others are Kaafirs.
Lastly the Hadith of Hudhaifah bin Al-Yaman says to leave all and not to start a new Jamaat by taking Bayah. The above mentioned saying of Omar (R.A), if read in its context talks about what not to do at times when there is no Khalifah. That is when the Ummah has not yet agreed upon one Khalifah. This is the beauty of Islam which teaches us unity and not to have hundreds of Khalifas or takers of Bayah. Jamaat-ul-muslimeen's methods lead to a lot of Factionalism. You might like to know that there are two groups (in our knowledge, Allah knows best how many more really exist) by the name of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen. They both have Khalifas and they take Bayah and do not accept each other . This is what we mean by factionalism. And from the Pakistan
7.Back breakers for Jamaat ul Muslimeen.
The following questions should be asked to any member of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen. Alhamdulillah they are back breakers for them. They won't know the depth of these questions when asked. But once they answer, the refutation should be provided. We have asked a few people from this jamaat these questions personally but none have answered. The only answers we received were through e-mail and never one on one....
These questions should be asked in a straight forward manner to get precise answers..
Q.1) What is a person who is not a member of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen?
a) Muslim
b) Kaafir
Q.2) How does a person become a muslim?
Q.3) When did the Khilafah (started by the sahaabah) end?
Q.4) What did the people become after that (the end of that Khilafah)?
a) Muslims
b) Kaafirs
8.How to counter Jamaat ul Muslimeen.
These are the questions to be asked to any member of Jamaat ul Muslimeen and how to refute their answers. Note: Read the article "The hidden kufr" carefully and memorize the points mentioned therein to counter their answer for this question.
The first question's answer:
"What is a person who is not a member of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen?"
If they say that every body else are muslims then their Manhaj (methodology) goes against the following saying of Umar (R.A):
"Whoever gives the pledge of allegiance to anybody among you without consulting the other MUSLIMS, neither that person, nor the person to whom the pledge of allegiance was given, are to be supported, lest they both should be killed."
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 8.817 Narrated by Ibn Abbas.
This is so because Islam does not want Hundreds of Khalifas taking bayah. Islam is for unity. And unless and until there is no agreement upon a Khalifah, then no one is supposed to take bayah as a Khalifah.
If they say that every body else is a Kaafir then they are going against the saying of the Prophet (SAW):
" Whoever calls his brother "O Kaafir" then one of them is a Kaafir"
Muwatta of Imam Maalik (56.1)
And we also have a beautiful historical example, where Ali (R.A) was asked about the Khawarij, "Are they Kaafirs?" and Ali (R.A) replied, "NO, they are trying to run away from kufr." When such a big personality as that of Ali (R.A) did not declare them Kaafirs..........who are we? Even though the Khawarij rejected Ali's (R.A) Khilafah, did not give bayah, declared many Sahabah as Kaafirs and Renegades (Murtads) and started killing Muslims, Ali (R.A) did not call them Kaafirs.
The second question's answer:
"How does a person become a muslim?"
They will answer that "By joining Jamaat-ul-muslimeen".
How does a person join this jamaat?
They will answer, "By giving bayah".
First of all they will not be sure. but if they answer as above then this is another innovative concept. This was never the way of the Prophet (SAW) and the Sahabah . Ask them to provide solid evidence from the Quran and Hadith.
They might quote the following:
"One who dies without having bound himself by an oath of allegiance (bayah) will die the death of one belonging to the days of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance)."
Sahih Muslim Hadith 4562 Narrated by Abdullah Ibn Omar.
Sahih Muslim Hadith 4562 Narrated by Abdullah Ibn Omar.
The text is absolutely right but the context in which they use it is wrong. This applies only when a Khalifah is present, not that we must start looking for one or make one ourselves. This hadith does not speak of a person becoming a MUSLIM or about how to become a muslim.
History of Islam has been a witness from the time of the Prophet (SAW) that a person becomes a muslim by proclaiming Shahadah and he remains one by fulfilling the rest of the four pillars of Islam.
The Jamaat-ul-muslimeen should fear Allah and stop these innovations, for the Prophet (SAW) said:
"Whoever does something not approved by us will have it rejected." (Bukhari and Muslim).
The Prophet and the Sahabah never said that a person becomes a muslim by giving bayah. Hence their beliefs are not approved.
And if they say that a person becomes a muslim by reciting the "Kalimah" then refer to the first question's answer.
The third question's answer:
"When did the first Khilafah end?"
This question is only for information's sake.
They will most probably answer "After Omar bin Abdul Aziz, the 12th Khalifah"
This answer will help us in our next question.
The fourth question's answer:
"What did the people become after that (End of that Khilafah)?"
If they answer muslim then it means that they (the people) remained muslim even after the end of Khilafah which means that khilafah is not a requirement to be a muslim and this proves that there were still muslims present at the time when Masood Ahmed formed his jamaat by taking bayah, which goes against the following saying of Omar (RA):
"Whoever gives the pledge of allegiance to anybody among you without consulting the other MUSLIMS, neither that person, nor the person to whom the pledge of allegiance was given, are to be supported, lest they both should be killed."
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 8.817 Narrated by Ibn Abbas.
If you corner them from this angle then they have no other alternative but to say "Kaafir".
And here is the punch:
If they say that every one after the end of Khilafah of Omar Ibn Abdul Aziz became a Kaafir or apostate or even a renegade (murtad) ..........then read the following:
1. The Khilafah of Omar Ibn Abdul Aziz ended in around 98 Hjrah.
2. All the major muhadditheen (scholars of hadith) like Imam Bukhari & Imam Muslim came after him.
3. Many narrators of ahadith came after him.
4. All the Imams (of fiqh) also came after him.
Considering the above points, keeping Jamaat-ul-muslimeen's concept, the above mentioned people (2,3&4) are all Kaafirs (May Allah forgive us for such utterances)!!!!!
And a Kaafir's hadith cannot be accepted, hence their concept leads to kufr and it finally leads to the rejection of Ahaadith and books like Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, because in the chain of narrators you will find according to them many non-muslims or apostates (May Allah forgive us for such utterances)!!!
Hence this Jamaat leads to madness and Kufr.
The above mentioned points are, Al-hamdulillah, enough for a person with right intentions to leave this jamaat. Persons with Ikhlas (sincerity) will definitely leave this jamaat. People with evil intentions will never leave it.
May Allah guide us all !!
9.Online Debate with Jamaat-ul-muslimeen.
The following were the answers received from them (e-mail) to the back breaking questions:
"Here you go:1. A person who is not in Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen is in Firqa's.
2.A person becomes a muslim by witnessing the oneness of ALLAH and the prophethood of prophet Muhammad (Sallallh-u-Aliahi-wa-Sallam); and acting upon Islam as well.
For that you have to stick to Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen as it is the command of ALLAH and His prophet.
3.After the 12 khaleefa's , the brightest era of lslam ended as is in Saheeh Bukhari.
4. Allah knows best what they became after that we are answereable for that which we know not what they did."
Their email address: info@aljamaat.org
Notice the cleverness with which they have answered. The reply given to them was as follows:
(Note: You have to be aggressive against them)
"Praise be to Allah, we praise Him and seek His help and forgiveness. We seek refuge with Allah from the evil of our own selves and from our evil deeds. Whomsoever Allah guides cannot be misled, and whomsoever He leaves astray cannot be guided. I bear witness that there is no god except Allah alone, with no partner or associate, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger.I received your answers to my four questions and here is my response:
To the first answer:-
I think you do not understand simple English. My question was not about a person being in a firqa or not? as you have cleverly answered or should I say cleverly "avoided". The actual question was:
whether he is a MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
MUSLIM OR KAAFIR?
NOW IS IT CLEAR? Please answer to the point (Choosing one) and dont try to be clever!!
To the second answer:-
How does a person become a muslim?
you answered that, By testifying that there is no god but Allah ,that Muhammad (S) is his last messenger, follow Islam and be with Jamaat ul muslimeen as it is the command of Allah and his Messenger.
It seems that you have added another Pillar to the pillars of Islam which is an innovation. Your Kufr is clear over here. Why do you have to specifically mention about Jamaat ul muslimeen, why don't you also mention about growing a beard as it is also the command of Allah and his Messenger, VERY CLEVER AND SELECTIVE INDEED.
Because you are IGNORANT about matters of fiqh you do not know the difference between FARDH (compulsory) and WAAJIB (obligatory).. Pity..
What is your opinion about Shaikh Albanee And Shaikh bin Baaz who were not of your jamaat ?
ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?
ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?
ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?
ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?
ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?
ARE THEY MUSLIMS OR NOT?
I HAVE TO REPEAT IT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND SIMPLE ENGLISH.
When the Prophet (S) was asked about "What is Islam?" he never said what you said.. Hence it is clear from your answer that you consider only your jamaat people or people who are a part of you as muslims and the rest as KAAFIRS for which you are famous. Refute if you are on HAQ.
To the third answer:-
When did the Khilafah end ?
You said after 12 Khalifas. This is only a key to open the door to prove your kufr through the fourth question which will be a back breaker..
To the fourth question:-
What did the people become after that?
You said you don't know and its not your business.
Well listen to this , according to your jamaat people, the last Khalifah was Umar bin Abdul Aziz (or be it any other man for that matter), This Khilafah ended before the era of the great muhadditheen
Eg: Imaam Bukhari and Imaam Muslim RAHIMA HUMULLAH..
Now if a person says that "i do not know whether these muhadditheen were muslims or not" (as in effect you have) then he is "OUT OF ISLAM" because he in turn has rejected all the Ahadith which are based upon their authority. And a Non Muslim's hadith cannot be accepted .
HENCE YOUR AQEEDAH LEADS TO KUFR AND HENCE YOUR ARGUMENT IS BASELESS..
THE CORRECT AQEEDAH IS THAT THE PEOPLE REMAINED MUSLIMS BECAUSE THEY HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB TO PRESERVE THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM. LET ME ASK
YOUR IGNORANT JAMAAT THIS QUESTION,
" WERE THESE MUHADITHOON MUSLIMS OR NOT ? BECAUSE CERTAINLY THEY CAME AFTER THE 12 KHALIFAS"
" WERE THESE MUHADITHOON MUSLIMS OR NOT ? BECAUSE CERTAINLY THEY CAME
AFTER THE 12 KHALIFAS"
" WERE THESE MUHADITHOON MUSLIMS OR NOT ? BECAUSE CERTAINLY THEY CAME
AFTER THE 12 KHALIFAS"
" WERE THESE MUHADITHOON MUSLIMS OR NOT ? BECAUSE CERTAINLY THEY CAME
AFTER THE 12 KHALIFAS"
I HAVE TO REPEAT IT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND SIMPLE ENGLISH.
PLEASE PONDER OVER YOUR HOPELESS SITUATION AND IF YOU FEEL CORNERED AND CANT ANSWER THEN FEAR ALLAH AND SEEK HIS FORGIVENESS FOR YOU HAVE INDEED "INNOVATED" IN ALLAH'S DEEN.
PLEASE REPLY CLEARLY AND TO THE POINT IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS."
After this reply form us, Jamaat-ul-muslimeen said:
"Dear Baatil Firaq Destroyer,
May be you think you are over cloud nine for giving these very updated replies.
I think you still have not told us who you are and which sect do you belong to and whatever sect you belong to please prove it's existence from the days of the prophet ( Sallallh-u-Alaihi-wa-Sallam ) and his companions.
We will be extremely grateful.
If khilaafah ended it does not mean that there was no Muslim as all the Muhadditeen were Muslimeen and not any thing else, they did not belong to any sect as they can't practice against Islam and Islam shuns sectarianism in all its evil forms.
Awaiting your religious identification.
A MUSLIM."
Then we replied:
"Praise be to Allaah, we praise Him and seek His help and forgiveness. We seek refuge with Allaah from the evil of our own selves and from our evil deeds. Whomsoever Allaah guides cannot be misled and whomsoever He leaves astray cannot be guided. I bear witness that there is no god except Allaah alone, with no partner or associate, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger.I have received your answers and here is my response:
It is human nature that when you are cornered and trapped by questions you cannot answer, you either counter question or you change the topic which is being discussed. Let us not go anywhere but to the point.
Let us now compare your answers. In your first reply you said that you do not know what the people became after the end of the Khilafah. And in your second reply you were knocked to your senses and then you said that the Muhadditheen were Muslims who were of course among the people after the Khilafah. Now here are some points derived from our discussion:
1) According to you the Muhadditheen were not the part of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen (Khilafah).
2) As they were Muslims, this proves that Jamaat-ul-muslimeen's existence is not necessary for being a Muslim.
Now the questions that arise are:
What about people who are not muhadditheen?
Were they Muslims too?
i.e. if you say that only the muhadditheen were muslims and not anyone else
then what about the narrators of ahaadith?
In the chain of narrators of Ahaadith there are many non-muhadditheen.
So the question is, "Were these people also Muslims or not?"
"Were these people also Muslims or not?"
"Were these people also Muslims or not?"
"Were these people also Muslims or not?"
Because according to the principles of the science of hadith only a Muslim narrator can be accepted.
The principles do not even accept a hadith from a person who practices Bid'ah leave alone non-muslim.
Hence we have to accept them as good Muslims who were very close to the Sunnah.
Now here are your possible replies and their refutation:
If you say "we dont know", as you have in effect said in your first reply, then you are OUT OF ISLAM because you have then rejected all the ahaadith.
If you say "no they were not muslims", then your Kufr is undoubted as you again have rejected
If you say "no they were not muslims", then your Kufr is undoubted as you again have rejected
Ahaadith.
If you say "yes they were muslims", then that without doubt means that people can be muslims without Khilafah. And then it means that there were MUSLIMS PRESENT AT ALL TIMES.
If you say "yes they were muslims", then that without doubt means that people can be muslims without Khilafah. And then it means that there were MUSLIMS PRESENT AT ALL TIMES.
You also said that the muhadditheen did not belong to any sect, now I shall prove, Insa'allah, that the one which will go to heaven is also referred to as a sect in ahaadith.
There is a misconception among you people that the people who will go to heaven are not a sect.
We don't know from where you got this innovative concept. If you have a some brains, can understand clear langauge and don't have any pre-conceived notions then observe the following hadith:
Rasool allah (peace be upon him) said:" There will befall my Ummah exactly (all those) evils which befell the people of Isra'il, so much so that if there was one amongst them who openly committed fornication with his mother there will be among my Ummah one who will do that, and if the people of Isra'il were fragmented into seventy-two sects my Ummah will be fragmented into seventy-three sects. All of them will be in Hell Fire except one sect. They (the Companions) said: Allah's Messenger, which is that?Whereupon he said: It is one to which I and my companions belong.
(Tirmidhi. 171)
Ummah of Muhammad (Peace and Blessings of Allaah be upon him)
Total sect/s = 73
Sect/s that will go to hell = 72
Sect that will go to heaven = 1
Where is it ever mentioned that it is not a sect?
Our answer is nowhere. WHAT IS YOURS?
If the above calculation is wrong, prove it!
Hence your aqeedah is baseless and you have no proof. I pity you..
Did the muhaddithoon belong to the Group that will go to jannah or not?
Did the muhaddithoon belong to the Group that will go to jannah or not?
Did the muhaddithoon belong to the Group that will go to jannah or not?
Did the muhaddithoon belong to the Group that will go to jannah or not?
Our answer is yes they did. The presence of Khilaafah is not neccessary for being in it. That group is only based on the "Aqeedah" of The Prophet and the Sahaabah. Whoever has the right aqeedah is among the saved group that will go to heaven. Because if you say that every individual group should be counted as a sect, then there will not be 73 sects but thousands of them. Hence we have to believe that the sects mentioned in the above hadith are only related to Aqeedah.
My name is not necassary at the moment but regarding my religious identification "I AM A MUSLIM" and I belong to the Saved group according to my aqeedah as it is in accordance with the Prophet (S), the Salaf and the Ashab ul Hadith (Muhaddithoon) who had the same aqeedah as well.
I Believe in Allaah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, The Day of judgment and divine destiny (taqdeer). I believe in interpreting the Quran and Ahaadith According to the understanding of the Prophet and the Sahaabah, tabaeen and tabe tabaeen i.e. Salaf us Saalih. Unlike you, who give their own interpretations according to their desires.
Now just incase you have forgotten, here are the questions:
(Note: the first question has not been answered to the point from the very beginning, if you don't answer it now I WILL ANSWER IT QUOTING YOUR OWN LITERATURE)
Q1) What is a person who is not a member of your Jamaat?
a) Muslim b) Kaafir
(Note: a person can only be a Muslim or a Kaafir there is no third thing)
Q2)What are the narrators, who are not muhadditheen, who came after the Khilafah?
a) Muslims b) Kaafirs c) We dont know (we are ignorant)
Q3) Did the muhaddithoon belong to the group that will go to heaven?
a) yes b) no c) We dont Know (we are ignorant)
Answer to the point and not missing out on any.
Based on your response, you will know the state of your Islam. And Allaah is the Guide to the Straight Path."
After this answer from us they never replied..........
10.Even a child can disprove their concept.
They say that Jamaat-ul-muslimeen is the name of the jamaat, i.e. it is a proper noun, and any other name is not acceptable. Take now the Arabic words Jamaat-ul-muslimeen.
Now ask an Arab what does it mean. He would answer in English " a Group of muslims"
Now look at the following sentence :
"I saw a Group of Muslims"
Any little child who knows some grammar, if asked about the above would say, Group is an adjective (any word that describes a noun) and muslims is a noun. The same applies to Arabic !!!
Jamaat-ul-muslimeen is not a proper noun at all!!. No person on earth who knows a bit of Arabic grammar would ever say this.
Hence the people of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen have no strong basis in their argument.
And above all The Prophet and the Sahabah never said that Jamaat-ul-muslimeen is a "NAME".
The Jamaat-ul-muslimeen must fear Allah and repent for they have indeed innovated in Allah's religion. And every innovation leads to Hell fire. Further more because of this innovation they have declared many as Kaafirs.
The people of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen LIE and say that the prophet said that "Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" is the name of the jamaat.
Let them know this hadith as well:
"He who deliberately attributes a lie to me, let him take his seat in Hell-fire."
Sahih sunan Ibn Majah (1/11/28).
Please keep this in mind
Jamaat: adjective
Muslimeen: noun
This will shatter their baseless arguments and beliefs, Insha'allah. Allah is the guide to the straight path !
11.Latest Findings about the Jamaat ul Muslimeen - Masoodiyyah
Under this section, we will Insha'Allah be dealing with all the latest happenings, news and new research to prove Jamaat ul Muslimeen's kufr to the world.
1)New findings about their beliefs regarding Ahadith (the second source of Islamic Law).
2). A lecture in Urdu refuting Jamaat-ul-muslimeen.
3). How they "automatically" became the chosen ones: :-)
4). Muhammed Ishtiaq, Imam???
5) Masood Ahmed and another one of his lies.
6) Masood Ahmed - The liar.
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1)New findings about their beliefs regarding Ahadith (the second source of Islamic Law).
The following is a question posted on their website in the QA column. Read their answer carefully.
Do you refer to books written by Albani or Ibn Baaz etc?
Answer:
We refer to all books but it is not necessary that we might agree to a hadith which Albani or anyone etc declared Sahih or dhaeef, we do our own research."
It can be clearly understood from their answer that they don't trust anyone. "We do our own research". We doubt whether their "learned" Ameer or any Tom, Dick or Harry from Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen knows the number of the different types of Hadith leave alone their names. Their Kufr is clear here. Refer to the online debate to know what happened regarding the Ahadith.
---------------------------------------------------------------2). A lecture in Urdu refuting Jamaat-ul-muslimeen.
While doing some research on the internet, we came across a lecture in Urdu by Shaikh Abdullah Naasir Rehmani. Reality of Jamaat al-Muslimeen (source: http://www.quransunnah.com/modules.php?name=Lectures&d_op=viewdownload2&cid=12&min=120&orderby=titleA&show=30). The lecture is in two parts. You would need real player.
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3). How they "automatically" became the chosen ones: :-)
Look at the following statement from their website, we could not stop laughing. (The article is "Why was Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen revived?")
"We are ordered to remain united and in the form of one Jamaat, this unity of Muslimeen in the form of a Jamaat has been called Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen by our Prophet (SallAllah-u-Alaihi-wa-Sallam), so Masood Ahmad and his friends automatically became Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen by following Quran and Sunnah, and in practice of sunnah they named their Jamaat Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen."
You cant get more ridiculous than this. :-)
---------------------------------------------------------4). Muhammed Ishtiaq,Imam??
The Jamaat ul Muslimeen claim they follow the Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his companions. However that is just a claim. The following is taken from one of their books:
They refer to Ishtiaq as Imam. This is not the way of the Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the Sahabah. Never did the sahabah refer to the Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allaah be upon him) or the Khalifas as "Imam" except for during salah. "Ameer ul Mu'mineen" was the title given to a Khalifah. This Jamaat wants to avoid using the word Mu'mineen since it goes against their kufr. They come up with a new innovative titles like "Ameer-e-Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen".
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5) Masood Ahmed and another one of his lies.
Masood ahmed in one of his books by the name "Hamara naam sirf ek - Muslim" clearly mis-translates a verse from the word of Allaah, The Holy Quran.
Note how he has translated the word Ummat as Jamaat. Quite clever. All this just to support his group and his takfiri aqa'id (beliefs). Any ignorant person (Jamaat ul Muslimeen is full of them) who doesn't know Arabic and who only reads the urdu part of the booklet would think that this Jamaat was mentioned in the Quran as well.
---------------------------------------------------------6) Another one here.
Look here how he mistranslates again from the same booklet. This time it's not the word of Allah but the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).
He translates every word except Jamaat al Muslimeen (for his selfish motives). Also the Arabic word "Imaamahum" would mean "their Imaam". He translates it as "Jamaat ul Muslimeen kay Ameer" which means Jamaat ul Muslimeen's Ameer. Although looks very harmless but when the ignorant read it they are sure to believe that these are the exact wordings of the hadith. Please note that Masood Ahmed used to call himself "Ameer of Jamaat ul Mulsimeen".
He continues the same hadith but for the second line, he deliberately removes the arabic text. See below:
The original Arabic text would be (transliteration): "Fa illam yakullahum jama'atun wala imaamun?". Which would translate as: "And if there is no Jama'at and no Imam?". But this man translates it as: "Agar jamaat ul muslimeen na ho...", in English it would be: "If there is no Jamaat ul muslimeen..." The following questions are to be asked:
Why did he hide the Arabic text?
Why did he translate the word Jama'at as Jamaat ul muslimeen?
12.Kufr Quotes - Jamaat ul muslimeen - Masoodiyyah
In this section, Insha'Allah, we will be dealing with what we heard them saying. As we have had several interactions with them. Although this would not be solid proof but it would still be and eye-opener for many. All these days we have been dealing with their concept as a whole but now let us analyze what they individually say. The names of the persons (from Jamaat ul Muslimeen) who made these statements have been withheld. Please note that we went to them as ordinary people seeking the truth and this is what we heard them say. We did not go to them for a debate during these quotes. (JM : a person from Jamaat ul Muslimeen ; WE : Jmexposed). The discussions were in the Urdu language below is a translation.
1). During one of our discussions with them we asked a person from amongst them who was a muslim who joined them:
WEdkfjsf: "There are a lot of reverts (converts to Islam) in your Jamaat. Are you also a revert?"
JM: "All of us (the members of Jamaat ul Muslimeen) are reverts (to Islam)."
JM: "All of us (the members of Jamaat ul Muslimeen) are reverts (to Islam)."
As you can see here it is pretty clear what he means by it.
-----------------------------------2). In a casual living room discussion, we were trying to prove to a person from their group that they are wrong:
WE: "What is a person who is not a part of Jamaat ul Muslimeen?"JM: "He is a Kaafir."
No comments...
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3). One of our associates who left Jamaat ul Muslimeen had a discussion with one of their members on the points mentioned in the article "The Distinctive Features of Jamaat-ul-muslimeen" and this is what happened:
WE: "You see it says here in point no. 11 "To leave Jamaat ul Muslimeen is to leave Islam", doesn't this prove that you consider everybody else as Kaafirs?"JM: "No no, It means if a person joins us and then leaves us, he is a Kaafir."
WE: "I was a part of your Jamaat and then I left you. So what am I?"
JM: "A Kaafir."
No comments again. Every thing is self explanatory.
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4). One of their members on the word Kaafir. There was actually a discussion on whether or not they consider all besides them as kaafirs or not:
JM: "I don't know why people are afraid of the word "Kaafir". It merely means (literally) a Farmer."
It can be clearly understood here how they are trying to justify their claims. They easily call other Muslims as Kaafirs.
-----------------------------------5). During a discussion about the end of the Khilafah:
WE: "When do you think the Khilafah of the Sahabah ended?"
JM: "The last Khalifah was Omar bin Abdul Aziz, he was the twelfth one and after that every one (of the Ummah) became a Murtad (Apostate)."
Please refer to the online debate to see how to counter this effectively.
Their Kufr is clear here.
WE: Where is Allah?
JM: I don't know.
Narrated by Abu Ismaa'eel al-Ansaaree in his book "al-Faarooq" and quoted in "al-'Aqeedah at-Tahaaweeyah, p.288
Al-Balakhee reports that he asked Imaam Abu Haneefah about a person who does not know whether his Lord is in the heavens or on earth. Abu Haneefah replied, "He has disbelieved, because Allaah has said, 'The most Merciuful is above the Throne (Taahaa 20:5), and His throne is above the seven heavens." He (al-Balakhee) then said, "What if he then said that He (Allaah) is above the throne but he does not know whether the throne is in the heavens or on earth?" He (Abu Haneefah) then replied, "He has disbelieved because he has denied that He (Allaah) is above the heavens and whoever denies that He (Allaah) is above the heavens has disbelieved."
13.Shaikh Albaani on the word "Muslim"
Shaikh Nasiruddin Al-Albaani (Rahimahullah) had a discussion with a person who, like the Jamaat ul Muslimeen, wanted to use the name "Muslim" only and nothing else.
Shaikh al-Albaani: "When it is said to you, ‘What is your madhhab’, what is your reply?"
Questioner: "A Muslim".
Shaikh al-Albaani: "This is not sufficient!".
Questioner: "Allaah has named us Muslims" and he recited the saying of Allaah Most High, "He is the one who has called you Muslims beforehand." (al-Hajj 22:78)
Shaikh al-Albaani: "This would be a correct answer if we were in the very first times (of Islaam) before the sects had appeared and spread. But if we were to ask, now, any Muslim from any of these sects with which we differ on account of aqeedah, his answer would not be any different to this word. All of them – the Shi’ite Rafidi, the Khaariji, the Nusayri Alawi – would say, "I am a Muslim". Hence, this is not sufficient in these days."
Questioner: "In that case I say, I am a Muslim upon the Book and the Sunnah."
Shaikh al-Albaani: "This is not sufficient either".
Questioner: "Why?"
Shaikh al-Albaani: "Do you find any of those whom we have just mentioned by way of example saying, ‘I am a Muslim who is not upon the Book and the Sunnah’?" Who is the one who says, ‘I am not upon the Book and the Sunnah’?"
At this point the Shaikh then began to explain in detail the importance of being upon the Book and the Sunnah in light of the understanding of the Salaf us-Saalih…
Questioner: "In that case I am a Muslim upon the Book and the Sunnah with the understanding of the Salaf us-Saalih".
Shaikh al-Albaani: "When a person asks you about your madhhab, is this what you will say to him?"
Questioner: "Yes".
Shaikh al-Albaani: "What is your view that we shorten this phrase in the language, since the best words are those that are few but indicated the desired intent, so we say, ‘Salafi’?" End of quotation.
Hence, the point is that naming with "Muslim" or "Sunni" is not enough, since everyone will claim that. And Imaam al-Albaani emphasised the importance of the truth being distinguished from the falsehood – from the point of view of the basis of manhaj and aqidah, and that is taking from the Salaf us-Saalih, as opposed to the various sects and groups whose understandings are based upon those of their mentors and leaders and not that of the Salaf, fundamentally.
Source : www.albani.co.uk
14.The Open Challenge for an Online Debate once more.
The Following is an email sent by us to Jamaat-ul-muslimeen on Tue, 17 May 2005:
"Praise be to Allah, we praise Him and seek His help and forgiveness. We seek refuge with Allah from the evil of our own selves and from our evil deeds. Whomsoever Allah guides cannot be misled, and whomsoever He leaves astray cannot be guided. I bear witness that there is no god except Allah alone, with no partner or associate, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger.
We at Jmexposed organization strive for excellence in the field of islamic dawah.Alhamdulillah our website has a new look. Check this link www.jmexposed.ly2.com
Very soon inshallah we will have a dot com domain and we will advertise heavily against Kufr and bid'ah (jamaat-ul-muslimeen).
We openly invite you to the truth. If you wish we can have a serious online debate.
The one and only condition of the debate will be that we promise to have it posted as it is on our individual websites the way it goes to let the world know.
This will be an e-mail based debate, with six e-mails in total. Three each.
We are waiting for your response.
(P.S: this e-mail will also be posted on our website)
Ameer
Jmexposed organisation."
We are still waiting for their response....
15.Our second challenge to Jamaat ul muslimeen – Masoodiyyah.
The Following is an email sent by us to Jamaat-ul-muslimeen on Tue, 17 May 2005:
"Praise be to Allah, we praise Him and seek His help and forgiveness. We seek refuge with Allah from the evil of our own selves and from our evil deeds. Whomsoever Allah guides cannot be misled, and whomsoever He leaves astray cannot be guided. I bear witness that there is no god except Allah alone, with no partner or associate, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger.
We at Jmexposed organization strive for excellence in the field of islamic dawah. Alhamdulillah our website has a new look. Very soon inshallah we will have a dot com domain and we will advertise heavily against Kufr and bid'ah (jamaat-ul-muslimeen). We openly invite you to the truth. If you wish we can have a serious online debate. The one and only condition of the debate will be that we promise to have it posted as it is on our individual websites the way it goes to let the world know. This will be an e-mail based debate, with six e-mails in total. Three each.
We are waiting for your response.We at Jmexposed organization strive for excellence in the field of islamic dawah. Alhamdulillah our website has a new look. Very soon inshallah we will have a dot com domain and we will advertise heavily against Kufr and bid'ah (jamaat-ul-muslimeen). We openly invite you to the truth. If you wish we can have a serious online debate. The one and only condition of the debate will be that we promise to have it posted as it is on our individual websites the way it goes to let the world know. This will be an e-mail based debate, with six e-mails in total. Three each.
Jmexposed
(P.S: this e-mail will also be posted on our website)"
We are still waiting for a response.
Contact Us
You can contact us on the following e-mail address:
www.jmexposed.ly2.com
jmexposed@gmail.com
Jazakallah Khair!!
